I totally agree Steven and nouse. Very glad there are no fights as I'd rather hear everyone elses point of view as well and perhaps learn something new.
I understand about how and why enclosure size and type affect power handling as well as output. Enclosure design 101. But I appreciate the input and perhaps others will learn something.
I think it is a very fine line between where some of us disagree and only on a few points.
There is however no point in going on and on, back and forth about what clipping is, what causes it, what it does etc. because I consistantly am told different things to the point where I don't know what or who to believe or if I even care anymore : )
I take responsibilty of any info I post that is wrong and hope I don't mislead anyone. But I would like to clarify my understanding of the topic and explain a little better where I am coming from.
A few facts I would think we can all agree on. Every speaker and amp is different. Test procedures can differ. I would think it could be difficult at times to predict real world outcomes unless something is tested over and over again, and then to test again and again with different parameters over great lengths of time. Kinda like what I do in my "lab", the install bay ,installing 100's of systems a year and seeing things almost every day that make me go, hmmm. We also can agree I would hope on the difference between "peak" and "rms" (or clean if you wish) power.
An example using one of my cars I call the "beater": It is a 1989 Pontiac and it still has the original factory 6x9's on the rear deck. Take into account that is 17 years of the brutal, scorching south Florida sun beating down on them as the car has never been garaged. I have been running a RF 75watt rms per channel amp (4 ch) to those and the pionner 4 x 6's in the dash for over 2 years now. (crossed over properly of course, that should always go without saying on anything I post). They still sound great and believe me, I am a rocker and I push them hard. Who could have predicted those old 6x9's (or 4x6's for that matter) could do that??? and I see no signs of them dying. I have a clean signal with the input gain at about 3/4 and using a Clarion deck.
For bass I have a 100watt rms amp running a RF p1 10'' bridged to it @ 2ohm in a ported enclosure I built. Before that I was running a JL 10w6. Granted it was old, but one day I heard a horrible noise in the trunk and then no bass. I toasted it. But the p1 is still going strong for well over a year. This is an example of a real world system, not a test bench or ultra, ultra high end equipment that has much tighter tolerences and therefore reliable specs. But understand, the w6 was an amazing speaker, the p1 in its wildest dreams will never sound near as good as that did.
Now about the underpowering,overpowering debate.I will be the first to admit I am wrong, I will admit defeat and concede if someone can help explain how I am wrong in my thinking.
This is how my mind works:
First the statements..."you can not blow a sub by underpowering it".......BUT.........
a sub can blow if you use it with an amp that sends a clipped signal to it.
Ok, I will agree with that, be it "wordplay" or whatever, I want everyone to know I agree with that.
An amp will clip if....(ok this may be the shakey ground but I will say it anyhow)... you drive it too hard. (too much gain, volume whatever you want to call it)
Ok, can we all agree on that? If not post why and in a way I can grasp, pretend I am the retard you think I am..lol
And last for this topic......sending a clipped signal to speaker can(or will) blow the speaker.
Hope we all got that. The following is where I think many of us have different philosophies. This is where the charts and graphs don't count. This is more about the way we all as individuals view things differently, but, perhaps some or all of you will get it.
First off I get the feeling that some people have something seriously against those who like our music loud...really loud. I also feel many of you would think I can solve the problem of a customer that might be repeatedly blowing woofers due to clipping by asking them to turn down the volume and learn to like it. Now realize if my customer wants thier system to play louder then the physical abilities of the equipment I do not think they would be very happy if I told them..."why don't you just turn it down you dunce". I also know they would not be very happy campers if I turned down thier gain and filled the hole with hot glue so they could never raise it. Yes, it would prevent thier speakers from blowing, but it is not a permenent fix...not for this type of customer. Also keep in mind that this customer is using an amp with an RMS rating well below that of the the speakers RMS rating.
Now I agree with this...Keeping the volume down below distortion levels because if the speaker blows, it is the users fault, not the amplifier... But....
If I install an amp that has more usable, clean power, that is matched closer to the speakers rating (although I believe in headroom and that going over the speakers rating is fine... within reason, but for this discussion I will say "close to")..then the user will be able to achive a louder system before clipping it.
Now when someone approaches me with this dilema I have 4 options-
1) Break the customers hands so they can't turn the volume up
2)lower the gain in an attempt to prevent the customer from overdriving the amp/speakers
3)convince the customer to try different woofers/enclosure
3) use an amp that has enough clean power to meet thier needs
It took alot of writing to get this point across but this is in a nutshell the only point I was trying to make. Not fight about o-scopes and sinewaves and magical things blowing speakers. So in closing although the statement "underpowering a speaker will blow it" is technically wrong, an amplifier can be driven into clipping which can damage a speaker. Using an amp that has more usable, clean power that is closer to the speakers rating is ONE way to pervent the clipping, therefore saving the speaker(s). I just said basically the same thing I always believed, but in a different way so I should hope this clears everything up. Please post anything on the topic if you have something to add.
I hope now you see where I am coming from but if some of us still never come to an agreement, we will just have to live with the fact that we agree to disagree.
Thank you all again for helping with this and debating.